Monday, September 10, 2012

Divine Omnipotence




Listened to this lecture on Friday- just now getting to posting the blog about it. Its just as jam packed as the Intro version. Lots of stuff. Today Nash offers an answer to The Problem of Evil. It's to the point- so not completely sufficient. But- its a start. Obviously as people come up with more branches of argument for this, we'll have to come up with more defense. As of now though, Nash does a good job of coverign the basics. (Again, I'm going to try and put my thoughts in parentheses. So- if you see something funky and its outside the parentheses- It's probly Nash). 


Important things that Nash mentions early in the lecture:


There are some things God cannot do, because they contradict with his character. 


So, knowing that God is all powerful, does the term "Divine Omnipotence" mean God can do anything? No. 


For example: 

He cannot lie. 

He cannot swear by a being greater than himself. 

He cannot break the law of non-contradiction. 

Once an event has happened, he cannot bring about that it didn't happen. (Basically- God can't tamper with the past, and change things that have happened.) 


An important question: What if we don't know God's plan, and the evil he allows takes the place of a greater evil? Or what if preventing that evil leads to a lesser good? (Messes with his plan). 



Christian Basic Assumption About Evil 


God created a world with evil, and has a good reason for doing so. (Who are we, tiny fragile beings, to question the motives of the Creator of the Universe? There's a big difference between understanding the finer details and thinking that as humans we're "owed" any sort answers from God. He gives us information and understanding because he loves us, not because we deserve it.) 


So, when bad things happen, instead of asking "How could God have let that happen?", we can say, "What if God's got a good reason for this, and I just don't get it?"  See the difference? The second opens a floodgate of opportunity. Just because we don't hold the secrets of the universe doesn't mean there isn't a reason, just that we don't have it.


Not all bad things happen without a reason. Revelation- the end of the world-  is revealed in scripture. God's warning us about it in advance (So we can be prepared). 


Another important premise- Evil is not eternal. There was a point when evil had not entered existence yet. (Nash didn't say anything about the future of evil. I'm curious about his views on that. If anyone has something to add to this bit- feel free). 



HOW???? 



Question: How can God and Evil exist simultaneously?? 


Well.... here are some possibilities. 


1. Augustine-- major Christian philosopher. 

Theory goes like this: (Verbatim Nash's words)

When God created good, things had (Well, still have) degrees of good. A rock is good because God created it, but Man has a higher "degree" of good, because of the level of himself that God put into us (We're made in his image). Keep in mind, there's also free-will here. All of a sudden, one of God's creatures decides he wants to upset the "levels" of goodness, and put himself above God (That'd be Satan, aka- Lucifer). Lucifer went against God's plan- against his character per say- and therefore, had to be separated from God. (God is good, and the absence of Good is evil. Therefore, when Satan was separated from God, a "hole" in the universe sort of opened up and became the "absence of God"). Then of course came the fall of Man- where man made the same decision, and got booted out of the Garden of Evil. 

 (Please keep in mind, this argument may seem over simplified- but if you're dealing with people that have different worldviews, the simpler the logic, the harder it is to find holes. You're building a case, and if you try and run with some complicated "Jump to conclusions" explanation- the person you're trying to convince is more likely to find holes and discredit you. Baby steps.) 


Something Nash takes the time to point out here that I think is important as well: (Prepare for a bit of a rant...)We choose this path every day that we sin (Which'd be every day). We're humans. We screw up- think we're big/tough, and upset the order of things. Basically- we choose evil. We choose the path Satan took hundreds of millions of years ago. That's why we deserve such a harsh punishment- because we're messing with the God of the universe. Thank the Lord (yes, pun intended) for forgiveness. Because, pardon my french, without forgiveness- we'd be screwed (We'd be in Hell). Harsh? Yes. True? Yes. BUT- That's why this is so important. Don't forget that when you fight to defend the logic of the gospel, someone's soul is possibly at stake. 


Enough ranting. 


Back to Augustine. The one hole in his argument is this: Where did Satan get the idea to mess up the order in the first place?? Well, just like Nash said before- we're human, and cannot possibly explain every bunny trail question that pops up. This is one of those that he chooses to leave unanswered. (If you've got an answer, feel free to comment). 


2. God permits evil to prevent a greater evil, or to cause a greater good. 

If we get rid of our worldview, what do we have left? It's the basis for what we believe. ( In this case, several premises have to precede this conclusion. Firstly, God knows better than us. Believe it or not, you'll run into people who think that they know better than God. Quite often actually. They say things like, "When I get to heaven, I'm gonna chew him out for 9-11. Ask him why my dog died. Tell him spiders would have been better off NOT on the ark. Etc...".  Therefore- second premise: Just because we don't know about it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Radical- I know. But seriously- We don't have to know everything- and that's crucial when explaining this argument to a non-believer. Not all questions can be answered. ) 



Final Considerations 



1. The burden of proof is on the non-believer. 

This. Is. Crucial. This is negative apologetics- All we have to do is play defense, and show reasonable doubt as to why their argument might not be true. You don't have to 100% prove it false. You're hurting yourself if you try to assume responsibility for the entire argument. 

So, does that put us in a stalemate? Maybe. But stalemate is a definite improvement upon where we started- without any defense against the argument of evil. All it takes is a mustard seed. Possibility. 


Something ironic about this argument (if, and only if, it's being argued by a Naturalist): 

If a naturalist tries to argue The problem of evil, technically- he's cheating. In a naturalistic worldview- there is no good or evil. There is not God to create such things. Everything just is


Huge Question that Nash poses at this point in the lecture: 


Are there worse things than dying? 


His overall answer: absolutely. 

2 peices of scripture: 


1. Romans 8:28 - And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.  

Notice Paul says here: "For those who love him". Scary thought huh. All things work for Good for those who love God. Another thing- notice that Paul doesn't mention when. There's an implied "eventually" here. It's not always in this life- but God does promise that no matter what sort of crap you go through on earth, If you love him, he's got your back.  But that's why Death leaves such a bad taste in our mouths. For non-believers, there is no hope in the afterlife. 


2. Romans 8:18

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 

This is just elaborating on the point above. The day is coming when we will see and understand, if only just a bit. Jesus outweighs all suffering. The absence of God outweighs all mortal evils. This is fundamental, and really, it's at the core of what Christianity really is. 


Nothing is worse that being without God (Which essentially is hell). That includes death. (Toby Mac song- What good is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8du_xWWt8E ) 




Sooo, ya. Like I said- a lot of stuff. Good stuff though. Next time'll be on world views. Stick around, more interesting apologetic stuff to come. :) 






 

5 comments:

  1. The Burden of Proof is a weird concept. I'm not sure I agree with whom the burden of proof lies. I think each side of an argument would expect that the other person would be the one who needs to bring the evidence in.

    Every arguer that I've heard claims that the burden of proof lies with the other person. That leads me to think that the 'burden of proof' is an invalid idea.

    Both sides need to present evidence for their side.

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  2. I think what Nash is saying here is that yes, both sides have to present a case, BUT- we don't have to prove without a doubt, 100% that a certain reason is the "truth" that contradicts this statement. In courtroom lingo- the prosecution has brought a charge against us- that God and evil cannot co-exist. Our job as the defense isn't to prove that the prosecution is 100% wrong, just to provide reasonable doubt. The burden of proof lies with the non-believer, because they're the ones who need to show that their case is "truth". All we have to do is make a case for a possibility that they're wrong- because then it can't be "truth". Both sides have to present evidence, and have logic to back up their claims. But- the roles of each side are different. I agree though that most people claim that the other side has the burden of proof. Having the burden of proof stinks, and makes making a case a lot harder, so trying to place the burden on the other side is defiantly an advantage. And, sometimes it's a murky grey area as to who really has it. In this case I believe that it's clear, but depending on how you look at it, I suppose it can be interpreted different ways.

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  3. Part of this depends upon how one words the question:

    If the question is -- An omnipotent, good God cannot coexist with evil -- then all one must do is provide one evidence to the contrary. Using the word 'cannot' requires only a single evidence to the contrary in order to be broken.

    If the question changes to -- An omnipotent, good God who coexists with evil, must either not be omnipotent, or must not be entirely good -- then this requires more than a single evidence to the contrary to break.

    Who would the burden of proof be cast upon in each circumstance? In the first question, the burden of proof would be to disprove the statement, so it would rely upon the person who does believe they can coexist. The other person is simply relying upon the law of non-contradiction.

    In the second question, the burden of proof is difficult to identify. There is no one statement that can be disproven easily. Instead, one might show that the two can coexist, or that either scenario (not a good god, or not omnipotent) is not necessarily the case. The burden of proof would rely upon the person making the claim.

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  4. Hmm. Interesting thought. I'd never thought about wording, and what it might mean for the burden of proof. Then again, in both cases, wouldn't the thing that needs "proving" stay the same? (Truly asking, not meant to be rhetorical). In the first instance, if you bring evidence to suggest that God (including all of his characteristics- omnipotence, goodness, etc.) can co-exist with evil, then you disprove the "cant" statement. In the second instance, if you were to bring evidence to support the same sort of thing- God (In his full omnipotence and goodness) can co-exist with evil- you essentially do the same thing.

    Something I sort of disagree with- and I may be wrong here- the burden of proof in the first case seems to lie with the "cant" person. If you define Burden of Proof as 'Building the case', then I believe it would be the job of the person saying something can't be, to explain why they disagree with the affirmative statement. The other person would still have a 'burden' to prove things, but it would be to poke holes to discredit the other person's argument. At least, that's how I would interpret it.

    As for the second scenario- I still think the burden stays the same. Because the main point stays the same, at least in essence, the burden of proof would still be on the person with the "can't" statement.

    Here's where I asked myself, "Well, Why?"

    The way I guess I'm interpreting it is based on assumption of innocence until proven guilty. If you were to take that away- then Burden of proof is completely arbitrary, and your point would be completely valid. No one would know who has the 'obligation' if you will, to do the 'building' of a case, or 'destroying' of a case. If you were to assume the other way- that the Law of Non-contradiction was correct until someone could prove God's side, then yes, the burden of proof would be flip flopped. And I suppose that everyone has different world views, and could interpret the 'assumption' of this situation differently. Different questions, and their wording can insinuate different things, and just because this one was easily converted into a positive/negative situation- doesn't mean that all questions can be. I can totally see where a question could be morphed into something not quite as simple as that, and then the burden of proof would be completely lost. Maybe in those situations it's a hodgepodge of both people doing the building and breaking down.

    So, I suppose really that it all comes down to whether a person thinks that the affirmative or the negative have the burden, and where the assumption goes. The wording of the question also has something to do with it. Now my brain's sort of going in circles. As to which "assumption" is right, I have no clue. I just know that I happened to approach this situation with the neg burden.

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  5. You have an excellent and a really introspective post there!

    Even when I was writing the 3rd comment, My mind was going around in circles trying to figure out who gets the burden. I can't say that I have any answers to any of the questions, but I feel that some of these questions raised are simply not as clear cut as some might make them out to be.

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